quoted 5 lines Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 02:22:37 -0000>Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 02:22:37 -0000
>To: idm@hyperreal.org
>From: "Kevin Ryan @" <i__oo__@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [idm] Re: the stockhausen effect
>Message-ID: <F189QcqnWwAeRaNgEpT00000bec@hotmail.com>quoted 2 lines <<Beware- when most people use the name 'Stockhausen' to describe another><<Beware- when most people use the name 'Stockhausen' to describe another
>artist, they usually have never heard any of his music. His name has
become
quoted 1 line such an anachronism that it's liberally used all over the place to describe>such an anachronism that it's liberally used all over the place to describequoted 3 lines almost any type of music that has discord and random noise ('Cage' is>almost any type of music that has discord and random noise ('Cage' is
>another name that gets bandied about like
>this).>>quoted 1 line Also beware- If accessibility means anything to you at all, you'll hate all>Also beware- If accessibility means anything to you at all, you'll hate allquoted 5 lines that crap. If you're one of the elite few who actually enjoy listening to>that crap. If you're one of the elite few who actually enjoy listening to
>random electronic noises with no kind of continuity--as in most musique
>concrete--then congratulations, and more power to you. I'm not in that
>vgroup, and most of us aren't. I've blown a lot of dough on Cage,
>Stockhausen, Varese, and similar folks and I can't get through five minutesquoted 1 line of any of those pieces.>of any of those pieces.
It's one thing to spend time trying to come to terms with such work, and
another to dismiss it wholesale (I note that you don't say you've blown a
lot of time listening to it...just spent a lot of money. In fact you admit
you can't "get through five minutes," so perhaps you've never listened
further?). Ok, I'm being a little snide, but dismissing it all as "crap"
just smacks of know-nothingness. Have you ever read Cage? Are you really so
cynical?
And another thing... is anyone else sick of the stomach-clutchingly-anxious
bashings of "elites" and "elitism" on IDM lately? Jesus, these people sound
like Rush fucking Limbaugh, trashing the NorthEastern intellectual elites.
Just because you don't like/get/care about a given aesthetic object, one
that has an established tradition and an intellectual framework around it
(and yes, very often its own surfeit of hype), doesn't mean that any of its
fans are particularly bothered by your uninterest. So you really don't need
to slam them with the charge of "elitism."
quoted 3 lines I love IDM. I love ambient. I love classical (up>I love IDM. I love ambient. I love classical (up
>through c. Impressionism anyway). But avant garde art music just seems to
>suck all the life and love out of music. Which perhaps is the whole point,quoted 2 lines but it's nothing you can't get listening to your air conditioner or your>but it's nothing you can't get listening to your air conditioner or your
>toilet or your microwave. I think it's much more difficult and respectablequoted 2 lines to write traditional, accessible music than it is to fuck around with some>to write traditional, accessible music than it is to fuck around with some
>plugs and microphones for awhile.
See, here you've bought into the very thing you dismiss. You're terrified of
Cage et al because it's "difficult," but you have to defend the status of
what you like and thus deem it even "more difficult," in the interest of
retaining -- your word -- respectability.
Aesthetically I see almost nothing in
quoted 2 lines common between IDM and modern art music, but if IDM artists like Autechre>common between IDM and modern art music, but if IDM artists like Autechre
>claim Stockhausen as an influence, then I can't argue with that. Still thequoted 3 lines existence of beats alone in most IDM distances it worlds away from art>existence of beats alone in most IDM distances it worlds away from art
>music-- IDM is a child of beats, be they techno beats or hip hop beats or
>Krautrock-- and most of it (some of the purer glitch might be an exception)quoted 6 lines has practically nothing in common with those early electronic classical>has practically nothing in common with those early electronic classical
>composers, except that both are electronic. I don't see the connection
>between Reich and minimal techno either, except maybe that both can be
>really repetitive at times, but that certainly doesn't show influence. I
>mean, lots of Indian (at least South Indian) and African musics employ
>percussive minimalism and polyrhythms, but it would be quite silly to claimquoted 1 line they're anywhere near Steve Reich aesthetically.>they're anywhere near Steve Reich aesthetically.
Actually, Steve Reich studied African drumming extensively, so in this case
there is a pretty direct link.
Cheers,
Philip